Patricia Karvelas: Shadow Communications Minister, Sarah Henderson is with me now. Welcome to the program.
Senator Henderson: Patricia, good afternoon.
Patricia Karvelas: You called Triple Zero during the outage twice. That’s an offence under the law. In fact, you could face jail time. Do you apologise?
Senator Henderson: Well Patricia. Firstly, let me just say that’s an outrageous claim. The law relates to those who make hoax calls or vexatious calls. I, like many Australians, have very little trust in our telecommunications networks, and also the ability of the Albanese government to manage our triple zero network last year, when Optus received a number of early calls saying its triple zero network was out, Optus ignored those calls. So, as the Shadow Minister for Communications responsible for this portfolio, I made those calls and discovered that I could not connect to triple zero. I then alerted a senior Telstra representative. It’s critically important in my position that I’m appraised of the relevant information, and also that I conveyed that directly to Telstra. Now, just to be very clear, it is the advice from Telstra that the camping on of emergency calls is working, but we also know that some Triple Zero calls did not work, and I am not going to apologise for doing my job, and it is time this minister started to do her job a lot better than she’s doing it.
Patricia Karvelas: We’re going to her but just still on your decision, you’re saying you’re above the law because no one’s meant to call Triple Zero. You weren’t in an emergency, were you?
Senator Henderson: Look, Patricia, I would say to you not to misrepresent what the law actually provides. As I said and made very clear, the law relates to those who make vexatious or hoax calls. I was clearly concerned about the wellbeing and safety of Australians. We had a horrific Triple Zero outage last year. A number of Australians died. I am the responsible shadow minister. In fact, I led the charge to establish a Senate inquiry into Triple Zero, and would you believe the minister set up an ACMA inquiry by the regulator into that outage last September, and we still have no outcome of that inquiry. And that is why I have today called for an urgent inquiry and a report back within seven days by the regulator to determine what happened today, whether any immediate steps can be taken to ensure this never happens again, and also Australians need to know whether anyone was impacted by the loss of Triple Zero, the emergency call service.
Patricia Karvelas: But you say you were just doing your job but Telstra has asked people not to contact emergency services unless they have to. The emergency management minister has called you out on this, saying it was an outrageous thing, that you actually given the finite service that it is, you don’t want to clog it up, isn’t that what you do when you call and you’re not in an emergency? That’s the problem with what you did, isn’t it?
Senator Henderson: Patricia, no, not at all, because I made those calls. I then advised Telstra, and then Telstra put out that advice to me, which I then conveyed on television this morning on Sky when I did that interview. So I was very clear and open about that. So the bottom line is that I’m doing my job, and I don’t have trust in this government, and I have very low trust in our telecommunications carriers after what we saw last year. And for anyone to suggest that this was some breach of the law because I was making a vexatious or hoax call is just ridiculous. And it just goes to show, and this is what the minister is briefing out, and it just goes to show how desperate this government is. It would be much more preferable if the minister tried to explain to Australians why it took two years for her to announce an inquiry into the Triple Zero regulatory framework. It was a recommendation in the Bean review.
Patricia Karvelas: I just want to check, you would make those calls again?
Senator Henderson: Patricia, if I can just make, sorry, just to let me finish making that point. It took two years for the minister to initiate a review of the Triple Zero regulatory framework. The government has now conceded it is not fit for purpose but that was a recommendation made more than two years ago. So, this minister has sat on her hands. I don’t trust her. Australians have no right to trust this government. Again, I reiterate that there is an ACMA inquiry underway into the Triple Zero outage of last September and we are still waiting for answers.
Patricia Karvelas: I’m just going to bring you, Senator, if I can, back to the question, though. Did you know it was an offence to call Triple Zero if you weren’t in an emergency?
Senator Henderson: Patricia, I would again ask that you not mischaracterise what the law says. The law relates to those who makes hoax calls…
Patricia Karvelas: I’ve checked it. You only can call Triple Zero if you’re in an emergency. That is crystal clear in the law.
Senator Henderson: No, you haven’t read the criminal code correctly, Patricia, because the criminal code provides that someone commits an offence if they call Triple Zero where they’re making or intending to make a hoax call, or where they are doing it in a vexatious way. So, frankly, as I say, and I don’t blame you for asking these questions but this sort of suggestion just shows how desperate this government is, that they are resorting to these sort of tactics. I actually alerted Telstra to the fact that the calls I made were not connecting. And at a time like this, Australians need to know that they can pick up the phone and dial Triple Zero. I actually have been trying to get further information from Telstra for most of the day. They provided me with some initial information, and I’m pretty disappointed that Telstra, certainly one representative, has not been very forthcoming with an update on the status of the network right now. But I will continue to do my job. to prosecute the importance of our telecommunications networks on behalf of all Australians, and Patricia, I make no apology for that.
Patricia Karvelas: So, are you confident that by making those two calls you didn’t knock off the chance of somebody in a genuine emergency from getting through?
Senator Henderson: Patricia, look, you can push this as much as you like but I think, as I say, those calls did not connect. And what happened last September with Optus – Optus took a number of phone calls saying we can’t get through on Triple Zero, and Optus ignored those calls. When there is such a serious outage as this, one that has caused chaos on our train networks, on our payment systems, lifts were shut down, emergency services for freight trains have been shut down. This is a really distressing, alarming outage.
Patricia Karvelas: And no one’s disagreeing with that but I suppose, as a senior public figure, as you are on the basis of what you say is doing your job, doing research, isn’t it dangerous to set a precedent that people could make this call to Triple Zero, as you have, and somebody does that as well, because they argue the same case, they’re just doing some research, isn’t that a dangerous precedent?
Senator Henderson: Patricia, as I say, I think you’re really mischaracterising what occurred. I am the Shadow Minister for Communications and Digital Safety. My job is to hold the government to account and the telecommunications carriers to account, and that is what I am doing. We have seen this government lie over and over again, and even today in Anika Wells’ press conference, she really downplayed the number of people who could not connect. We still have no information about whether anyone who could not connect to Triple Zero was impacted. So Australians deserve full information, and as I say, I am not going to apologise for doing my job.
Patricia Karvelas: Okay, did you direct anyone else in your office to make a call to Triple Zero?
Senator Henderson: No, I didn’t, Patricia.
Patricia Karvelas: Do you know if anyone else in your office made a call to Triple Zero?
Senator Henderson: Why you would reflect on my staff?
Patricia Karvelas: I’m not naming any staff, I’m asking about people who work for you.
Senator Henderson: Well, you’re raising an allegation that is…
Patricia Karvelas: No, Senator, I asked a question. It’s not an, I have not alleged anything. I asked did you?
Senator Henderson: No, there’s no factual basis for that question. I was the only person who called Triple Zero, and I did so because I have such a low trust in both our telecommunications carriers and also in this government. This government has systemically mismanaged the Triple Zero network. I mean, why on earth did it take two years to announce a review of the Triple Zero regulatory framework. As I say, my number one job is to be concerned about the safety and welfare of all Australians and that is very much my focus.
Patricia Karvelas: And you’re certain that your calls had no impact on the safety of other Australians?
Senator Henderson: Patricia, as I say, you’re mischaracterising my job and my responsibility on behalf of the Coalition. I am very proud of the work that we have done to hold this government to account, ad these sorts of tawdry allegations by the minister and her office, and briefing this stuff out to the media, all it’s doing is deflecting from the fact that we have a very serious outage. Patricia, if I could just finish my sentence and without interruption, this is a very serious outage. This has affected many Australians, including those who are potentially in a life-threatening situation, so we have a very important job to do to hold Telstra to account and to hold this government to account. And again, as I say, what the minister has announced today is just not good enough.
Patricia Karvelas: You talked about calling a Telstra senior person. Can you tell us who you called and what they told you?
Senator Henderson: No, I’m not going to go into the details. I conveyed the outcome of those calls to a senior Telstra representative. That’s right.
Patricia Karvelas: Okay. Another issue, opposition leader, Angus Taylor, wouldn’t rule out linking the Chinese missile launch to the Telstra outage. Now, there’s no evidence for that. Telstra says they do not believe it was malicious. Was it wrong for him to raise that when there is no evidence?
Senator Henderson: Well, this is why we need a full and very urgent investigation into what went wrong. We’re not going to entertain any speculation about the cause of this outage and that is totally appropriate.
Patricia Karvelas: Okay because we don’t really know that’s the thing, right? So it’s over the top to suggest it’s linked to the Chinese missile.
Senator Henderson: Well, that certainly hasn’t been suggested by us and I can tell you that we are just seeking urgent answers which Australians deserve. We’re not ruling out that this could be a cyberattack. We simply don’t know, and that is why I have sought, and we are seeking urgent answers from the government, and of course, from the regulator. And if the government thinks it’s going to initiate another inquiry, which is going to take 12 months, that is a joke. That’s completely unacceptable. Australians deserve a lot better than that, Patricia.
Patricia Karvelas: Thank you so much for joining us, Senator.
Senator Henderson: Thanks so much, Patricia.