Topics: Digital duty of care, EU FTA, Pre-COP costs
Rowan Dean: Today we’re joined by Liberal Senator Sarah Henderson. Sarah, thanks for coming on the show. It’s always great to have you with us. I’m going to kick off by asking a question I asked at the top of the show, which is, there may be a reason or there may not, but I was not comfortable with the fact that Angus Taylor did not turn up to vote against the digital duty of care legislation. We’ve talked on the show about it, about the problems with it. I know you’re not a fan of it. Tell me what happens next with this legislation and where the Liberal Party stand.
Senator Henderson: Rowan, good morning. Firstly, can I say this is the most offensive legislation, one of the worst bills ever to be introduced into the parliament. Not only does it pose a serious threat to free speech but it substantially weakens our current online safety laws. Remarkably, Rowan, all of the mandatory codes and standards which govern things like unlawful conduct, child sexual abuse material, pornography directed towards children, eating disorder material, that is all being stripped out of the legislation under the government’s proposal and there is no requirement in the bill to replace those mandatory codes and standards. So what this government is saying is a complete lie because when you look at the bill, and this will be interrogated by our Senate inquiry next week, we’ve got two days of public hearing, it is a joke what this government is saying because the bill does not reflect the government’s spin and rhetoric and lies.
I will just address Angus Taylor on the bill. I have to say, Rowan, one of perhaps the strongest voice from the Coalition is Angus. From day one, we have said we will not stand by and let this pass. We are going to fight this tooth and nail. Angus was paired during that day or during part of that day, which very typically happens with leaders. But Angus has been an absolute fierce voice against this political censorship bill, and we know why. And that is because the Prime Minister wants to use these laws to shut down his political opponents. It is so egregious what’s proposed in this bill. He gave the game away in New York, when he talked about misinformation and disinformation and you know, combating the polarisation on the left and the right. We know what this government is doing and Angus has been the most fiercest voice against this proposal.
Rowan Dean: Now I’m glad to hear that, Sarah. I just think purely from an optics point of view, I would have loved to see the leader of the Liberal Party there standing up and rallying against it but anyway, you’ve explained the reason, James.
James Morrow: Sarah, want to chat to you also about this incredible report in the Sunday Telegraph today about the number of treaties that Australia is signed up to. Now, there was an extraordinary moment in Senate estimates this week where it was revealed that we are signed up to as many as 2,000 maybe more, who knows? The point is, they don’t know and so many of these treaties have real impacts on our sovereignty because they say, because of international law, we can’t do things about everything from climate to the number of refugees we take to God knows how many other things, and we don’t know. Is the Coalition going to have a plan to do something about this?
Senator Henderson: Well, Matt Canavan, the shadow minister, of course, has asked for an audit of these international treaties and agreements. It’s very concerning that the government cannot give us a list, cannot tell us what our international obligations are. And we, of course, have been very strong on the government’s flawed EU FTA proposal, which does not reach the appropriate threshold, betrays our farmers, and that’s why we have said we cannot support the free trade agreement with the EU in its current form.
A couple of years ago, Don Farrell, the responsible minister, said the free trade agreement was not good enough. He was then asked, ‘Well, what’s changed that now justifies you supporting this free trade agreement?’ He could not address that question in Senate estimates. So we are holding their feet to the fire in terms of demanding a better deal for Australian businesses, for exporters and also for our farmers.
Rita Panahi: We’ve still got fractures within the Coalition. You’ve got someone threatening, well, confirming that they’re going to be crossing the floor. Andrew McLachlan, Paul Scarr saying he may also cross the floor to support this legislation. What is happening in the Coalition? Why can’t you have a unified position on an issue that’s this important?
Senator Henderson: Well, we’re still working through our processes, Rita, and that’s an important part of what we do, as both Liberals and Nationals. But one of the great hallmarks of our party is that we give our backbenchers the conscience to cross the floor when they see fit. I’ve done it. Others have done it plenty of times.
It’s a really important difference between Labor. If you have a problem with a Labor policy and I can tell you, Labor policies right across the board are destroying our economy, and yet those in Labor who vehemently disagree with what’s going on, including Jim Chalmers’ shocking policy agenda, his lies, and the terrible expenditure from this government, they must support all of the government’s legislation, or they will be expelled from the Labor Party. It’s command and control from Labor, so I think we’ve got a really good system in our party. But as I say, we’re still to work through the details, and we are really hopeful that Don Farrell is prepared to go back and try and get a better deal between Australia and the EU on such an important agreement.
Rowan Dean: Senator, you know I’m a big fan of Senate estimates hearings. I’m particularly a big fan of this particular senator. I’m going to show, oh hang on, it’s you. I’m sure you’ll enjoy this. Have a look.
Excerpt, Senate estimates, 26 October 2026
Senator Henderson: The expenditure in this department is just simply out of control. $150 million has been allocated for Pre-COP and related activities. Is this money part of that $150 million?
Sally Box: It certainly is, Senator.
Senator Henderson: Why are you spending nearly $700,000 on meeting rooms and accommodation in Sydney?
Sally Box: Because we were hosting a number of mandated events under the UNFCCC and a number of workshops to support the facilitation of the negotiations in our role as President of Negotiations.
Senator Henderson: But you can almost buy a hotel for that amount of money. I mean, seriously.
Rowan Dean: So, Senator, tell us what was going on there. You were trying to get to the bottom of the cost. I was astonished that they had a pre Pre-COP in Sydney. What’s going on? How much money do these people need?
Senator Henderson: I will clarify that by saying you could buy a hotel, maybe in the country, maybe not in the middle of Sydney! But it’s just another example of shocking waste. $150 million has been allocated to Pre-COP, including we discovered during Senate estimates a contracted $35 million or so on the conference in Fiji, where very few leaders, except those in the Pacific, were able to attend. Chris Bowen fell asleep at his own conference. And just so much waste.
We are seeing the highest level of government spending outside the pandemic in 40 years, driving up interest rates, driving up inflation, we’ve got another expected interest rate rise on Tuesday. Families are suffering, businesses are suffering like never before in this country. And this so-called President of Negotiations, what a Willy Wonka, because I can’t say that other word, has given himself this title. Turkey’s rejected it. He’s running around the world, just spending money hand over fist. It is a disgrace and that is why so many Australians are so angry with this Labor government.
Rowan Dean: Senator Sarah Henderson, always great to chat to you. Thanks so much, and Outsiders viewers love hearing from you.