Topics: Proposal to cancel visas of student protesters, university encampments, lack of action from the Albanese government.
Adam Shirley: At what point do you think that your right to be a citizen in this country is placed in peril or in doubt? In fact, at what point do you lose that right to be an Australian citizen? Well, the Coalition reckons, that is the federal opposition, that any student protester found to be involved in spreading antisemitism or supporting terrorism should have their visa cancelled. And the federal opposition argues that under section 116 of the Act, the ministers for home affairs and immigration have these powers. Senator Sarah Henderson is the senator for Victoria, a former federal member for Corangamite and former journalist at the ABC and is with us this morning. Senator, a very good morning to you.
Senator Henderson: Adam, a very good morning to you and I think most relevantly, I’m also the Shadow Minister for Education.
Adam Shirley: That is right. I wonder then in this proposal, if you will, or is highlighting as an opposition you put forward, are you talking about all students? I’m presuming in the wording by visa means you’re only focusing on international students?
Senator Henderson: Oh, absolutely. Only on international students who come here to study with an international student visa. We’ve announced that if we are elected and we’re working very hard to get elected, in the face of this shocking government, we will cancel the visa of any international student who commits, antisemitism or serious incidents of antisemitism. Because we just cannot tolerate what’s going on at university campuses at the moment. As a country, Adam, we must adopt a zero-tolerance approach. Of course, we have the ability to cancel visas on character grounds. We’ve seen a real mess from the government in this issue but we are determined to stamp out antisemitism on university campuses.
Adam Shirley: Why distinguish between international students and Australian students? Presumably you would abhor, as anyone would, any Australian student committing antisemitic behaviour of any kind?
Senator Henderson: Oh, absolutely. We absolutely do but domestic students don’t study by way of a visa. So only international students come here by way of a visa and our view is that if they commit acts of antisemitism, they no longer have the right to remain in this country and their visa should be cancelled.
Adam Shirley: But if the perpetration is the same and it’s equally as abhorrent, why distinguish in terms of punishment? Should there be some sort of equivalent punishment that you’re prosecuting for an Australian doing such things?
Senator Henderson: Well, Adam, I’ve been very critical about the failure of the universities to throw the book at students who commit acts of antisemitism. We’ve seen some really shocking incidents particularly in recent months. The universities have very strong rules and regulations, including a prohibition against harassment, intimidation, discrimination. There’s also, of course, a range of civil and criminal laws. And I know, for instance, the ANU is taking disciplinary action against the student who endorsed Hamas. There’s also an investigation underway into those two students who allegedly performed Nazi salutes and other things on an online meeting. So, the universities need to take a very strong stand against domestic students. But in the case of a student who comes here to Australia on an international student visa, we will not tolerate this sort of behaviour in our country.
Adam Shirley: Are you also proposing identical action to students who might commit acts of Islamophobia?
Senator Henderson: No, we’re not. We are proposing that … because, frankly, there is no issue with Islamophobia.
Adam Shirley: Sorry no issue on university campuses or in society with Islamophobia?
Senator Henderson: No, there is no issue with Islamophobia.
Adam Shirley: I’m interested in this, how do you know that?
Senator Henderson: This is one of the problems, Adam, and I think one of the concerns that we’ve had with the government is that they’ve been prosecuting this equivalence between Islamophobia and antisemitism. At the moment, in this country, we have seen the most alarming rise in shocking cases of antisemitism. So, our position is that international students who commit acts of antisemitism will lose the right to study in this country.
Adam Shirley: What would the burden of proof be for this? How would you prove it? Such that you could then, go to the act and then deport someone or remove their visa status? Senator?
Senator Henderson: Look, it would be prosecuted under the Immigration Act, the Migration Act section 116, provide significant powers to cancel the visa of any person, who is or may be at risk to the health, the safety or the good order of the Australian community. So, there’s strong provisions there and there’s also under another provision of the Act, the ministers have the power to cancel a visa if they show contempt or disregard for the law or human rights, including terrorist activities and political extremism. So, it’s a matter of obviously, a matter of you would make an assessment based on the facts of the case.
Adam Shirley: Right, so would you need photographic evidence? Would you need witness statements? Would you need some form of proof to then take this action, which would be significant obviously on someone’s life?
Senator Henderson: So, as I say, under the Migration Act, these provisions already exist. And they would obviously need to be, a finding that a student had committed an act of antisemitism and, of course, you can have different forms of evidence and they would all be considered as part of that.
Adam Shirley: Senator Henderson, will you, as an opposition, be making this case to universities directly and asking them, I suppose, to be that key component of providing information, evidence and or investigations such that you could then use the Act to cancel visas?
Senator Henderson: Well, we’re not in government.
Adam Shirley: But you’re making this call, though, to be fair.
Senator Henderson: Certainly, that’s the position that we have announced if we are elected. We have seen an incredibly disappointing approach from the current government to antisemitism on university campuses. And we’ve got the education minister, Jason Clare, who has even failed to directly condemn the use of children to chant terrorist slogans. We have seen a really shocking inconsistency in the way antisemitism has been dealt with. I mean, the government has announced a racism study in response to antisemitism on university campuses. Would you believe, Adam, that study will not report until the 30th of June next year, until after the federal election? There is an interim report but the final report will not be handed down then. And that just goes to show how weak the government’s response is. We, in fact, have called and I think we’ve already been on the record, we have strongly called for the Prime Minister to support a judicial inquiry into antisemitism. As a country, we need to make sure that we stamp this out completely. It is dividing our community, it is dividing our nation and the ANU is causing chaos, as we know.
Adam Shirley: I’m not sure it’s causing chaos, depending on who you ask, Senator, to be fair, and we’ve asked a lot of people at the ANU about that actual situation on the ground. I want to clarify a point you made earlier, if there’s already been an interim report, as you mentioned, and then there is a follow up report in the middle of next year due, should that not be what a detailed, ongoing investigation that you would not want to rush if it could have potentially very big changes and consequences?
Senator Henderson: No what I’m saying is, there’s no interim report. The interim report is not due until the end of the year. So, what’s happened is the government has announced, rather than taking a very strong stand, we have called on the Prime Minister to support a judicial inquiry into antisemitism. They have announced this pathetic racism study referred it to the Human Rights Commission, and in the Human Rights Commission’s media release, the commission did not even mention the word antisemitism. It’s a weak and pathetic response to a very serious crisis on university campuses. And that’s why urgent action is required.
Adam Shirley: I’m getting a few messages from listeners, about a couple of points you’ve raised in this push or this want that you want to see the government follow through on, and this text I guess highlights that:
(Listener text) So anti-Muslim protesters are okay in the view of the opposition? Is it only antisemitic protesters who would get their visas cancelled?
Adam Shirley: That text is wondering on clarification?
Senator Henderson: So, we have announced a very strong response to acts of antisemitism if we are elected. Now, certainly, if there was evidence of a huge spike in any other form of hate speech or vilification or intimidation on university campuses, we would all also consider that. But let’s not draw a false equivalence, Adam, between, any other form of intimidation and harassment and vilification and antisemitism. So please, I just really stress that to your listeners.
Adam Shirley: Do you believe they are drawing a false equivalence if they see an equal problem or a problem similar to, in scale with antisemitism?
Senator Henderson: Well just even by reason of your question, I just want to make it very clear to your listeners, it’s very important not to draw any sort of false equivalence between antisemitism and any other form of discrimination on university campuses because at the moment, currently in this country, right across a number of universities, and I am very pleased that ANU is really starting to step up, we are seeing a crisis of antisemitic conduct. We are not seeing a huge spike in other forms of racism or intimidation. And absolutely, if that was to occur, we would respond accordingly. But we are currently responding to the situation as it is, and we are saying we are determined as a Coalition under Peter Dutton’s leadership to stamp out antisemitism, and we will not tolerate the weak and insipid response we’ve seen from the Prime Minister today.
Adam Shirley: A final brief but important point from Raoul, from Bonython, opposing Israel, says Raul, and stopping genocide in Gaza is not antisemitic or supporting terrorists, believes Raul. Why is anything said against Israel automatically labels as antisemitic? What would your response to Raul from Bonython be?
Senator Henderson: So, what I would say is that every student has a right to free speech and to protest on a university campus. We’ve made that very clear. That’s a fundamental right. But as all universities also make clear, when you step over the line, when free speech becomes intimidation, when it becomes harassment, and when it becomes vilification, then that is absolutely not to be tolerated. And that’s why we have called for the encampments to be removed. And again, I say, it is just absolutely unacceptable that the current education minister for the Albanese Government, Jason Clare, will not even stand up and oppose the encampments which are fuelling antisemitic hate and vilification and intimidation.
Adam Shirley: Senator, we do appreciate your time. Thank you for it today. Thank you so much, Adam. Great to talk to you. Senator for Victoria, Sarah Henderson.